Christianity & Culture with Kierstyn St. John

LGBTQ+ has taken over the Christian music industry

• Kierstyn St. John of Zoetic • Season 1 • Episode 5

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The Christian music industry is in really bad shape. Today’s episode is about the five most heretical “Christian” artists working today and the debauchery that they are flaunting in our faces through their music. I am a part of a Christian jazz pop duo named Zoetic and I am shocked and disgusted by the current state of the industry that is becoming more and more radical every day. 

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Kierstyn St. John:

Today, I'm going to talk about a subject that I know quite a bit about because it's the industry that I'm technically in, which is the Christian music industry. Today, I'll be describing how the LGBTQ platform has really started to take over the Christian music industry. Okay, so the first thing I'm going to say today is that I am going to name names. Okay, and here's the reason why. Many of these people that I'm going to mention today, um, and as well as in subsequent videos, have very large platforms. They have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who listen to their music. Okay, and they call themselves. Many of these people call themselves, or have called themselves, christian artists. Okay, so to me, that means, whether you like it or not, if, if you call yourself a Christian artist and you have a platform of a hundred thousand to a million people, um, you are a Christian leader, and I will say that. You know, emma and I, we are the jazz uh duo, zoetic, but we call ourselves a Christian duo. We have a much smaller platform than all of these people, but we would want to be held accountable if we did any of these things. So I am going to name names, because if you're saying, okay, well, these people aren't pastors or elders. I agree with you, they're not. They have far more influence, to a degree, than some pastors or elders do, because their platforms are so large and music is such a powerful medium. Paul was very harsh on church leaders, religious leaders. So was Jesus. So, yeah, you may say that these people don't lead churches Some of them do, or at least they're on staff at a church but, again, they have far bigger platforms and far more influence than all but the biggest mega churches of today. I mean, okay, this person is just a funny name for Amy Grant. No, this is a different person. Okay, not Amy Grant. I will talk about her in a minute. Flamie Grant's real name is Matthew Blake, so it is a man who dresses in drag like a woman, okay, and he calls himself a Christian artist. And Flamie Grant's latest album is an album called Bible Belt Baby, which just topped the Christian iTunes charts. So it went to the top of the Christian iTunes charts.

Kierstyn St. John:

This album called Bible Belt Baby that was made by a drag queen, okay, um, and to anybody who is going to try to make the argument that there's nothing in the Bible about, uh, someone dressing in drag or that that's not incorrect to do. There actually is Deuteronomy 22.5,. A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord, your God. Okay, and that's not just Levitical cultural law. Anytime God calls something an abomination, he doesn't just change his mind on that right. Like other things that are called an abomination are echoed throughout scripture as being sinful, and this is no different, and so it is sinful to dress in drag. This, apparently, was something that was also happening during that time.

Kierstyn St. John:

I'm going to read some of the lyrics to the songs on this album, because they are disturbing. Like this is that album Bible Belt Baby by Flamie Grant.

Kierstyn St. John:

There's a song called Esther, ruth and Rahab and some of the lyrics to this song. But literally any man was welcome to stand up for an hour. We would listen to them talk and I guess, I guess the lesson there was God would only hear a prayer if it came from a person with a C-O-C-K. Okay, so super explicit, right, like that's explicit than some secular songs that I've listened to. Here's some more lyrics from that same song. Of course, eve said F-U-C-K the system I am chasing after wisdom and Rachel wouldn't let herself be played. Jezebel sure gave hell, but it's used H, I mean it's used, not in that way, uh, but she wasn't scared to die. If you're with jail, think twice when you recline. The only reason we have Moses is because Miriam was there to keep his petty ASS in line. So this is the same song, um, esther, ruth and Rahab off this album. So this is the same song Esther, ruth and Rahab off this album.

Kierstyn St. John:

Like this is wild stuff. Like, do I need to even say that? Like the fact that this is considered a Christian album, it is not. Again, as a Christian artist in the genre, you want to focus on things that are true and lovely and noble, and that doesn't mean that I can never talk about tough things. But using coarse language just for the sake of it, it's just extraneous, it's not needed and it's sinful in my opinion. And this song was off an album that went up to the top of the iTunes Christian charts.

Kierstyn St. John:

Now I'm going to talk about the second person. So, flamie Grant, this person, this drag queen, released a song with Derek Webb. Now, if you guys remember Derek Webb, he was the lead singer of Cademan's Call back in June and the song was called Boys Will Be Girls. It also reached the single also reached number one on the Christian iTunes charts. Derek Webb is again the former singer of Cademan's Call. He is now a self-proclaimed. He calls himself a hopeful atheist, whatever that means, who is on staff at North Point Church. So this is an atheist on staff at a church. He's a public atheist, he also, derek Webb, also dresses in drag.

Kierstyn St. John:

I'm going to play a bit of the video for Boys Will Be Girls. I'll see if I can. If not, I'll just put some of the lyrics up there. It is very disturbing. I mean, it's going to make your stomach turn over, but if I can't put the video in, I would encourage you to go watch it, just so you can see the depth of depravity. It was filmed again inside a church and they are putting drag makeup on Derek Webb while they're filming. And let me tell you, I don't want to speak for our Lord. I think that people do that too often, but I'm pretty sure that if Jesus were on earth today, he would walk straight into that church where this video is being filmed and start whipping people and flipping tables. Um, I just, I just think that that would happen, uh, that there would be tables flipping here.

Kierstyn St. John:

Okay, I'm going to read some of the lyrics to the song too. You know they say the greatest revenge is a life Well lived. So the loudest f-u-c-k-u and the greatest gift that you could ever give, they are one in the same. Okay, so Saying the f-word straight up in the song. Again, this song peaked on the christian itunes charts, so they are calling the song that is such an abomination. I mean, talk about an abomination to our Lord, a Christian song, and it reached the top of those charts. It's, it's wild. Now, you know, I will also say that from a musical standpoint. Um, and it's not just because I hate the lyrics, I do, um, but from a musical standpoint, the song is bad, like the trap beat in. It is lazy, it sounds like it's from 2006. The drum production incredibly lazy. It doesn't go at all with the acoustic guitar.

Kierstyn St. John:

And about the message of the song boys won't be girls, boys can't be girls. It's an unbridgeable divide created by the God that you guys mock. I'm talking to Derek Webb and Flamie Grant. The God that created you, derek Webb and Flamie Grant, who is Matthew Blake, created both of you as male, but you know better than him, don't you Right? So you make this song that he would be disgusted at and you call it a Christian song.

Kierstyn St. John:

It is just so wild to me that this is happening, that this is being permitted, that people in the Christian music industry are not speaking out about this. I think the one notable exception, or maybe the two notable exceptions, are John Cooper, who's phenomenal His podcast, cooper Stuff, has tackled this I'll link that episode below and Alyssa Childers, who you know you guys may know her as the former lead singer or one of the singers of Zoe Girl, but she's no longer doing that. So for the most part, the industry has stayed silent on this. We cannot stay silent on this. This is absolute depravity being shoved in our faces and being called Christian. And it's like, if you are a secular artist, if you don't call yourself a Christian artist, and you want to go out and you want to dress up and drag and do all that, I am not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of it, but I can't hold you to a Christian standard, right, if you're not calling yourself a Christian artist. There are plenty of non-Christian artists, secular artists like Sam Smith or Lil Nas X or whatever that do atrocious things. Right, but to me it's a special form of depravity when you call yourself a Christian and you do this and you lead people astray and you make people think that Christianity is something that it isn't. To me, that is far, far worse, okay, and it needs to be called out. So that's Flamie Grant. That's Derek Webb. Those are the first two people. Now I'm going to talk about Amy Grant, like actual Amy Grant, okay, because she has also been bad on this point, because she has also been bad on this point.

Kierstyn St. John:

Some of you guys may say that Amy Grant is not a Christian music artist, that she crossed over into pop, that she doesn't consider herself a Christian music artist. Well, that's actually not exactly true. Amy Grant thinks of herself as like the mother of Christian music. On her website she says this about herself. Conventional wisdom has it that Grant put contemporary Christian music on the map. Wow, that's actually not true. But fine, becoming the first contemporary Christian artist to have a platinum record, the first to hit number one on the pop charts and the first to perform at the Grammy Awards. So she considers herself as like this mother of the Christian music industry. She still tours with Michael W Smith, who obviously he still considers himself a Christian artist. She still makes songs with the Newsboys, who consider themselves a Christian artist, so she is still in that CCM world.

Kierstyn St. John:

She did not cross completely over into pop. This would be one thing if she completely denounced all of that, said I'm no longer a Christian, I'm just a pop artist. But no, she wants one foot in and one foot out, so I'm going to treat her like a Christian artist. The big thing, of course, is that she very publicly said that she was going to host her niece's lesbian wedding at her ranch. She has repeatedly expressed approval for the LGBTQ lifestyle. There have been just like weird things that she's done lately.

Kierstyn St. John:

Recently she made a song with the Newsboys called Stand, like she was in the video Towards the end of the video for a brief second. It looks like because Kirk Franklin is also in this video and there are issues with Kirk Franklin as well. It looks like Kirk Franklin is wearing pink lipstick. I don't know if I'm insane, it might just be the lighting, I might just be paranoid because I'm seeing all this other stuff, but yeah, it looks like he's wearing pink lipstick and Amy Grant is also in this video and why the newsboys are including Amy Grant, who, again, is going directly against scripture. That should not be happening, okay, and so, yeah, like that needs to be called out.

Kierstyn St. John:

Like Amy Grant has been very clear that she condones this type of lifestyle. And to me, then you know, you are no longer a Christian artist. To me that means you're going directly against scripture. You mock God for what he has said is right or wrong. Jesus says that if you love me, you will obey my commands. Right, and Amy Grant has no interest in doing that. And again, I think that there can be compassion in this area. I think that if I'm talking to a friend who is struggling with same sex attraction, I'm going to talk very differently. But this person is a public figure, she is a leader in the Christian music industry, so, moving on from there. So now we've got Flamie Grant, we've got Derek Webb and we've got Amy Grant. Obviously, again, flamie Grant and Amy Grant being two different people.

Kierstyn St. John:

Now I want to talk about somebody named Grace Semler. So she actually just goes by Semler, that's like her artist name. Her albums have also both topped the Christian iTunes charts. Okay, um, both of them. Her first album, preacher's Kid, as well as her second project, late Bloomer. She is an openly gay woman who is married to another woman. Um, she identifies as genderqueer and non-binary.

Kierstyn St. John:

Okay, so this is not somebody again who maybe is open publicly, maybe, about struggles with same-sex attraction, but talks about how the Lord is bringing her through that or how she is facing that in light of what scripture says. No, this is somebody who has basically said I don't care what the Bible has to say about this lifestyle, I'm going to live it anyways. I'm going to live in sin and you are going to have to just approve of it and if you don't, you're a bigot, and so I have a problem with that. Because she's a Christian artist, she calls herself that Christian artist, she has a platform, she reaches a lot of people, she toured with Reliant K and of course, we all know I mean, I grew up loving Reliant K, so this is very sad for me, but Reliant K I'm not sure if they still consider themselves a Christian artist or not, but again, I'll get into this but you really don't see these artists completely renouncing it. It's like they want the accolades and the support and the fan base of their Christian audience, so they don't generally just completely leave that world. They kind of still have one foot in and we let them right. But Reliant K toured with her.

Kierstyn St. John:

She also got vocal support for her lifestyle from John Foreman, who is the lead singer of Switchfoot Again deeply saddening for me because I grew up on Switchfoot. I love John Foreman. I think he's written some incredible music, but you know I have to bring this up In a TikTok video. John Foreman said hey, grace, how are you doing? I'm so honored you came to our show last night.

Kierstyn St. John:

I saw your story and wanted to respond and tell you yes, I support your rights and freedoms. I want you to feel loved and supported. I want you to feel treasured and valued and seen. I want all love and joy and beauty and truth for you. Love and embrace have always been central to our story and song. We need our differences. I'm so glad you were there last night.

Kierstyn St. John:

In fact, it breaks my heart to think that you would not be accepted. So here's the thing I want Grace Semler to feel loved too. But love and acceptance of all life choices are not equal. The most loving thing that I could ever say to grace similar is that god desires something better for your life. God desires your sanctification, god desires your obedience. The christian life is about laying down your cross, and all of us have difficult crosses to lay down. Now they're not all the same, but all of us, all, all of us Christians, have difficult things to lay down at the foot of the cross, and there is beauty in that, and that is Christianity, that is the Christian walk. So I want Grace Sumler to repent. I want that for her because I want her to truly know the richness and the depth of sacrifice and of love for for your lord, um and and and, just trusting that god knows what's best when he says that something is right and when he says that something is wrong, that god knows better than us about that. You know, um, sometimes I don't always like that, but that's on me, who am? Am I to answer back to God, right? And so I have compassion on Grace Semler, but I also have to give her some tough love and say if you're going to call yourself a Christian leader, then you better love scripture, you better obey the Bible and if not, just call yourself a secular artist, and that's how we should treat you. So I don't like John Foreman's response here, because it's permissive of what the Lord calls sinful. And again, I will make this point again.

Kierstyn St. John:

Some people may say well, these people you know Grace Semler and Flamie Grant and you know even Derek Webb. Like Derek Webb calls himself an atheist they're not really Christian artists. You're right, they aren't. But they're still hanging around in the Christian music industry. And my question is why? Because Semler, for instance, is going completely against scripture and doing so blatantly. She is throwing it in our face. Same goes for Matthew Blake, the you know the drag queen that goes by that name, flamie Grant. Same goes for Amy Grant, who has repeatedly endorsed what God has called an abomination. Derek Webb is an atheist. For Pete's sake, like he shouldn't be in the Christian music industry. He's not a Christian. Kevin Max, the former singer of DC Talk, is an atheist, or an agnostic at very least, and he released a song with Toby Mac last year.

Kierstyn St. John:

My question is why are these people still hanging around in the Christian music industry? I mean, I think I know the cynical answer, which is that they've built a fan base there and there's money in that, and the labels and the radio stations and other Christian artists are just letting them hang around. Well, that's not scriptural. There's a lot of scripture out there about If somebody is in the church or in. I mean again, back in those days they wouldn't have had a modern concept of the Christian music industry.

Kierstyn St. John:

But you know, if somebody is saying that they're in the church but they are living against what the Bible says is true and going against that, you know. You politely tell them that and if they don't listen and they keep blatantly doing it, you got to let them out of the church, like you just do. They can do too much damage inside of it. You know they need to be cast out of the industry completely as apostates. They shouldn't have any influence in the industry. I pray for their souls. I pray that they return to the faith. But until that happens it's dangerous to keep promoting them, also to promote them instead of actual Christian artists who love the Lord, who want to obey his commands, who want to serve him.

Kierstyn St. John:

These people, the people I've mentioned so far and I'll mention them again Flamie Grant, derek Webb, amy Grant, even arguably Reliant K and Switchfoot because of the permissiveness and Grace Sumler these people shouldn't be allowed near the Christian charts. They shouldn't be on Christian record labels, they shouldn't be played on Christian radio. They shouldn't be on tour with other Christian artists. They shouldn't be making videos with other Christian artists. They're not Christians, obviously. Okay, they revel in what the Bible says is sinful. The Bible says is sinful. But because this industry the industry that, unfortunately, I'm in cares more about making money than having integrity, these people are kept in. Okay, the cancer is not removed from the body of Christ. And I'm not calling them as people cancer. I'm saying they're sinful. Anti-biblical ideology is cancer.

Kierstyn St. John:

Um Matthew 7, 15 says beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Acts 20, 28 through 29,. Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. I know that after my departure, fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. First Timothy 5, 20. So this is both Jesus and Paul talking about these things. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all so that the rest may stand in fear. Titus 3.10-11. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once, then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful. He is self-condemned. First Corinthians, 5, 9 through 13. This is Paul.

Kierstyn St. John:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people, not at all meaning the sexual immoral of this world. So he's contrasting. He's saying you have to be in the world, you have to be a witness to non-Christians or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters, because then you would have to go out of the world. So he's like you need to be, you know, with non-Christians. Don't be unequally yoked to them. But he's talking about. But now I'm writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of a brother or sister, so anyone who bears the name of Christ, if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard or swindler, not to even eat with such a one.

Kierstyn St. John:

For what have I to do with judging outsiders, non-christians? This is why we don't hold non-Christians to the same standard that we hold Christians. Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Purge the evil person from among you. That's incredibly strong language, but it is biblical language. It is basically saying if somebody claims the name of Christ and they don't follow Christ, you talk to them, you talk to them again, and these people have been talked to, they've been warned publicly by many people and have persisted. Then that is it. That's it. Scripture is clear. These artists are doing tremendous damage to the body of Christ. There are artists out there, like us, who are desperately trying to share the gospel through our music, the true gospel. We are trying to tackle these difficult cultural issues from a true biblical perspective, but we don't get the I don't want to whine, but we don't get the promotion of Semmler or of Flamie Grant, both in the larger culture and within the Christian music industry.

Kierstyn St. John:

I'm not again, I'm not saying this to complain about my career. I'm saying this because the message of truth is the one that should be elevated the most within the Christian music industry, but it isn't, and that's why the industry itself is dying. So I'm sorry, I got passionate about it, I started ranting a little bit. It's my industry. I love music so much, I think it is so powerful and I, but I love my faith more. I love the Lord more. I want nothing more than to obey him and seek him for the rest of my life, for the rest of my days, Okay, um, and it makes me sad to see people who, who don't respect his word um being elevated within this industry and I think, because people are being silent on that, we're going to see the death of the Christian music industry. It's, it's already being hollowed out. All right, that's it, um.

Kierstyn St. John:

I'd love to hear your thoughts or any additional information on this topic and support our music as well as other Christian artists like us. I'm going to name some right now, some of our friends who are doing great work in the industry, who love the Lord. Gabriel Bello, if you like smooth jazz, he's phenomenally talented. We have a friend named Pablo Pisa, um Pablo Pisa Gandara, I believe, who, uh, he writes awesome like acoustic folk music. We don't write in either of those two styles, so, like it's, it's really cool to have a wide range. I think um, john Cooper of Skillet is is really solid, um, and so is the rock band Disciple, as far as I've been able to see. If you're into heavier music, bryson Gray is also an interesting person. He's a little more political, I think, than we are or any of these other people are, but he writes some interesting stuff in the rap genre.

Kierstyn St. John:

Be discerning, be careful. Even in CCM, I think Antoine Bradford and Matthew West seem to be pretty solid in the more CCM kind of place. So it's out there, but it's a lot harder to find. I would just say if you're a Christian, you love the Lord. Then support people who also love the Lord. That's pretty much where I'm going to leave it. All right, thank you and God bless.